Re: Graphic converter query - transparency

Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> Woody <usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> 
> > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Woody <usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > zoara <me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > [snip]
> > > 
> > > > > Generally speaking, people click around and see what happens.
> > > > > That's how people learn, generally speaking; trial and error.
> > > > 
> > > > Depressingly, a lot of them done do that either.
> > > 
> > > In the general case, it's impossible to tell what software does from
the
> > > GUI.
> > 
> > I have never found that to be the case. I have always found it
> > reasonably easy to work out what the software does from the UI.
> > I know you have problems with doing it that way
> 
> Along with most people.

Not really I wouldn't think.

> After all, you have to admit that a GUI does not actually inform you
> what software actually does in the general case - that's why it's not
> possible to work out how to use software properly from the GUI.

If you don't know what the software does in the general case, why on
earth would you be using it?

In generaly people get software to do a task, not the other way around.

So beyond that I would say, yes, given a piece of software, a large
number of people could work out how to get it to do what they want.

> I've made this point before, but you've always ignored it completely.

No, I have heard it and disagreed with it, as I am sure I have mentioned
before..

> > > All the GUI does is indicate what the GUI indicates: it doesn't tell
you
> > > what the software does.
> > 
> > Most GUIs if they are reasonably well put together give you more an
> > indication of what the software does than the manual, unless you have
> > something with no user interface.
> 
> That is contrary to my experience in the early 1990s, when proper
> software manuals still existed.
> 
> A GUI can only tell you how to use software if you already know what the
> software does /and/ you already know how to do the jobs that it permits
> to be done.
> 
> So GUIs are no use at all for those withou experience in a particular
> field and with particular types of software.

No, they are less useful. They are not of no use.

> So there is a problem: one still has to learn how to use software, but
> these days, the software suppliers no longer provide the purchaser with
> the means to learn how to use the software they supply.

> That's why you'll find so many expensive courses on how to use Photoshop
> and Quark Xpress and Adobe InDesign: it's because they come without good
> enough do***entation for the user to learn how to use them properly.

Photoshop comes with a ton of do***entation. OK it is on the disk so you
need to print it, but it is a full indepth manual, plus a full DVD of
training materials.

And yes, I learned to use photoshop and Quark Express, to the point I
could show other people how to use them without ever reading the manual.

Just because you cant do it, don't assume it can't be done.


> If you were right and most people could learn from the GUI, those
> courses would not exist.

That is just a daft assumption, sorry. Some people don't learn from
books at all, and need a hands on course. So there were no computer
courses in the 90s when there were manuals for everything?
Of course there were.

> It's why the bookshops are filled with third party manuals pu****ting to
> teach you how to use software - because pretty much everyone has the
> same problem as me when it comes to learning how to use software.

No, it is because most copies of photoshop in the world are pirate
verions, and the people don't download the manuals.

> If you were right and most people could learn from the GUI, those
> manuals would not exist.

You think these people would sit and photocopy the manual as well as
pirate the disks?

> Since the courses and manuals do exist, it's obvious that you're wrong
> about most people being able to learn from the GUI.

It is neither obvious or true.

-- 
Woody

www.alienrat.com