Talk About Network

Google


Register and Login
Nick
Password
Register create new account Sign up is FREE and you can post replies, new topics, bookmark posts and more!
Recover lost password


Mac > Macs in Britain > Re: Graphic con...
Latest [ Topics | Posts ] Archive Post A New Topic Post a Reply
<< Topic < Post Post 53 of 144 Topic 29099 of 30552
Post > Topic >>

Re: Graphic converter query - transparency

by real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rowland McDonnell) Jul 5, 2008 at 01:43 PM

Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

> Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> 
> > Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > 
> > > Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > <very puzzled again>  No, 600+kB/s is around about 338kB/s as far
as
> > > > handwaving regarding this sort of thing goes.  Double or half the
data
> > > > rate is `about the same'; ten times or a tenth isn't.
> > > 
> > > That's subjective of course.
> > 
> > <puzzled>  No, it's conventional scientific *****sment of numbers.
> 
> I don't care. If I'm only getting half my download bandwidth, that's
> significant. I don't care what the overall magnitude is.

That's your subjective opinion, of course.  I was eschewing subjectivity
in that sense.

> >  I'm
> > just using the sort of conventional hand-waving judgements that any
> > scientifically knowledgeable person would use when faced with the
> > variations that exist in reality - in this particular case, I'm
looking
> > at the variations that exist in typical internet downloads using a
> > broadband connection, assuming that what I see is typical (and it is
> > typical, from what I've gathered reading here and talking to a few
other
> > people).
> 
> Very nice, but your conclusions are incorrect for me. 

My conclusion (singular) is unquestionably correct in this matter - but
your opinion is that the correctness of my conclusions is not relevant
to your point of view, which is a different matter.

> > > To me, double-or-half isn't "about the
> > > same" at all, 
> > 
> > What I say on this subject is indubitably true - although for a given
> > context.  What context?  One in which the numbers vary by orders of
> > magnitude.  When you're dealing with variations that large, double and
> > half are `about the same'.
> 
> Except we're not dealing with orders of magnitude, are we?

Yes I am - I see order of magnitude (base 10) variations in download
speed as a matter of routine.

> The average
> broadband rate in the UK is roughly 3MBps. I personally get about that.

I get more than double that as my `link to the 'net' - I assume that any
given 'net connection to a server will not provide me with that much
bandwidth due to other limitations.

So far, experience matches my assumptions and I remain quite happy with
the download speeds I normally see.

> I do not, however, occasionally switch my router off and connect via a
> 1200/75 modem, which *would* be an order of magnitude different.

That would be many orders of magnitude slower.

> So if I
> start to download rates that mimic that, it's a problem.

Indeed - however, it's not unheard of for me to be downloading something
at only about ten times that sort of speed.

> > (Do rememeber that I'm the one who wanted to be an experimental
> > physicist and did the degree to do so and I was pretty damned good in
> > the lab though I say so myself)
> 
> Irrelevant.

<pained>  The point is that I've got a good feel for this sort of
handwaving comparison.

> > And that's what we get with internet data rates, innit?
> > 
> > Since no download I've seen has ever had a rate that's stayed put to
> > within 20% while it's been happening, I don't see how you can think
> > you've got it right on this one.
> 
> I regularly have downloads that max out my download bandwith for the
> entire duration of the download, sometimes lasting in excess of several
> hours. So you're wrong.

I've never met that - never.

> > I see download speeds varying from less than 1 kB/s to several hundred
> > kB/s, depending.
> 
> That's nice. So do I from time to time (depending on what I'm
> downloading, where from, and what the time of day is) but I also see
> downloads that make full use of my bandwidth.

I've never seen a download doing that - never.  I can stack 'em up so
that multiple downloads use pretty much all the available bandwidth -
but one download has never done it.

> > Your +/-20% band for `about the same' is clearly not quite right.
> 
> That's your opinion and you're welcome to it.

It's a correct judgement - not a mere subjective opinion, but correct
given a particular point of view which you are wilfully refusing to
accept as having any validity at all.

> As I said to begin with,
> it's subjective.

And as I said to begin with, it's not.

> To me +/- 20% is about the same for a typical (for me)
> download. For someone else it might not be.

You seem to have ignored my significant points on this matter.

> >  I'd
> > say that if you had two downloads, and they arrived at an average data
> > rate within 20% of each other, that'd count as `practically identical
> > data rates' from the `broadband internet download' point of view.
> 
> Yes, for me. Someone else might want to investigate where the bottleneck
> was.

With a normal domestic internet connection, anyone so doing would be
wasting their time.

> > >it's significantly different. +/-20% would be "about the
> > > same" to me (where typical broadband speeds are concerned), but no
more
> > > than that.
> > 
> > That might be your particular point of view, but it's not the general
> > one and it's certainly inappropriate for this kind of thing.
> 
> I don't think you know what "the general one" is.

I think I've got a better idea than you have.

Rowland.

-- 
Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
                                            Sorry - the spam got to me
http://www.mag-uk.org
                            http://www.bmf.co.uk
UK biker?   Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
 




 144 Posts in Topic:
Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-28 06:01:43 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-28 11:24:37 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-28 23:44:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-29 01:17:02 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-29 04:45:01 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-06-29 07:20:58 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-30 01:02:38 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-29 10:47:38 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-29 10:56:18 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-30 01:02:39 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
%steve%@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-29 11:17:39 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
"Woody" <use  2008-06-29 11:39:17 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
%steve%@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-29 11:58:20 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-06-29 12:11:36 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-06-29 16:20:23 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
%steve%@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-06-29 17:18:06 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-30 01:02:38 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-06-30 08:04:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 06:16:18 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-03 07:39:03 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-03 08:45:07 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-07-03 11:35:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-03 18:33:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-07-03 18:59:47 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 21:15:44 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
"Woody" <use  2008-07-03 21:48:36 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 11:28:03 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-05 17:30:19 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-15 16:27:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-15 19:12:58 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 01:27:29 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-22 11:00:10 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Tim Streater <timstrea  2008-07-22 18:56:14 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 19:43:17 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-23 11:40:31 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-23 17:58:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-24 11:18:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-26 03:47:34 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-22 18:46:19 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-04 07:04:46 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-04 09:43:44 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-04 14:13:29 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
"Woody" <use  2008-07-04 14:16:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-04 15:10:32 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-04 17:24:42 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 11:28:04 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-05 12:15:14 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 13:43:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 11:28:03 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-05 12:27:26 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-05 12:33:46 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 13:43:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 13:43:34 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-05 16:53:45 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-05 23:01:01 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
ames@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-05 22:31:03 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-06 10:39:11 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
ames@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-06 12:40:43 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-06 14:18:38 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
"Woody" <use  2008-07-06 14:28:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
ames@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-06 16:55:33 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-06 21:47:32 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
ames@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-06 22:50:29 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-07 10:46:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-13 13:26:50 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-15 20:31:15 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-21 16:06:29 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-21 16:23:12 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-07-21 16:32:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-21 16:38:47 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 02:14:42 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-07-22 07:08:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 18:21:52 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-07-22 19:50:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-08-01 16:02:35 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Jim <jim@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-08-01 16:10:46 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
matthew.sylvester@[EMAIL   2008-08-01 16:19:17 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-08-03 04:01:47 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-03 06:56:49 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Ian McCall <ian@[EMAIL  2008-08-03 09:23:58 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-03 10:04:14 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-08-03 10:08:52 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Ian McCall <ian@[EMAIL  2008-08-03 12:32:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-03 13:53:25 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
NEWS@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-08-03 10:07:53 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-03 10:23:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
NEWS@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-08-10 15:34:34 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-10 16:09:23 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-08-03 09:11:45 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Chris Ridd <chrisridd@  2008-08-03 09:14:01 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (j  2008-08-03 09:18:59 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
nonesuch@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-07-21 19:10:31 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 02:14:42 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
nonesuch@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-07-22 19:04:41 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-08-03 04:01:47 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-01 13:48:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Jaimie Vandenbergh <ja  2008-07-01 14:29:12 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 06:16:18 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 06:16:18 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-03 10:01:47 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-03 10:51:24 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 21:15:45 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-04 00:17:57 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 11:28:02 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-05 23:01:54 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Tim Streater <tim.stre  2008-07-03 11:10:32 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-03 21:15:44 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-04 00:18:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-04 00:24:37 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Stimpy <stimpy1997uk@[  2008-07-04 08:58:13 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Paul Russell <prussell  2008-07-04 10:03:31 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 12:46:50 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-05 17:30:19 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
jim@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (J  2008-07-05 17:49:30 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-08 17:21:44 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
Tim Streater <tim.stre  2008-07-08 17:36:49 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-08 17:21:43 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-08 18:26:54 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-13 13:26:50 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-13 18:03:24 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-15 13:25:26 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-15 19:28:05 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 01:27:28 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
usenet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-22 18:46:19 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-05 11:28:02 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-05 12:15:14 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-13 13:26:49 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-13 18:05:52 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-13 18:27:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peter@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-07-13 19:38:02 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-15 13:25:26 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
peterd.news@[EMAIL PROTEC  2008-07-15 21:39:56 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-15 23:28:52 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 01:27:28 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-22 11:00:11 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-22 19:16:14 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-23 11:40:32 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-23 17:58:00 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
me18@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-07-24 13:35:17 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-26 03:47:33 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-07-15 13:25:26 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
David Sankey <D.P.C.Sa  2008-07-01 14:32:50 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
g.harper@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-29 09:55:08 
Re: Graphic converter query - transparency
real-address-in-sig@[EMAI  2008-06-30 01:02:39 

Post A Reply:
  Go here to Signup

AddThis Feed Button


About - Advertising - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Signup

Contact
tan12V112 Sat Nov 22 12:38:15 CST 2008.