My comments below:
"William Smith" wrote:
> Hi Jay!
>
> My comments are inline with yours.
>
> In article <eyzCxjoOHHA.3668@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> "jay" <laslow_g@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Anyone have a guess as to the odds of Office 2008 adding full MAPI
sup****t
> > to Entourage?
>
> Doubtful. I suspect that MAPI itself will go away within a version or
> two in lieu of other protocols that are not so Microsoft proprietary.
That would be nice. Open protocols are a good thing.
>
> > Way back in 2003 Microsoft said:
> >
> > This version of Exchange does not sup****t MAPI. Through working with
our
> > customers and the Exchange team, we determined that adding calendar
and
> > address book sup****t through WebDAV was the most efficient and timely
way to
> > meet our customers' needs. Entourage X sup****ts IMAP protocol for
accessing
> > email from the Exchange server and will continue this sup****t.
> >
> > -from http://macwindows.com/entourage.html
> >
> > And ever since, enterprise Mac Entourage users have been hoping and
praying
> > for a "real" Outlook client from Microsoft. We are still using Outlook
2001
> > in Mac OS 10.4.X classic mode (yecch!) to overcome the following
> > shortcomings of a non-existant MAPI OS X based clients:
>
> What constitutes a "real" Outlook client and what shortcomings are you
> referring to specifically? The basic purpose of Exchange is to provide
> email, calendaring and contacts, which Entourage sup****ts. If you're
> looking for parity with Outlook for Windows, keep in mind that Outlook
> for Mac itself has never had parity.
Outlook 2001 for Mac has the following benefits Entourage 2004 does not:
Real time updating, no waiting for all folders and calendar to "update"
Profiles for multiuser workstations
Entourage 2004 does not provide full public folder or delegation sup****t.
No exchange server based rule modification
"Dumb" calendar verification which does not check for conflicts or out of
date appointments.
No out-of-office tool
Those are the big sticking points for us, but in testing, our end users
found the interface slow and bloated, opting to keep Outlook 2001 over the
newer Entourage 2004. Yes, we do have all the latest patches and upgrades
applied to both the server and clients.
>
> > Entourage 2004 provides a solution for e-mail, group calendaring,
> > scheduling, Global Address Book, and delegation only. Certain
> > advanced Exchange features, such as voting, shared tasks, shared
> > notes, and server-side rules, are not accessible.
>
> Outlook for Mac never sup****ted voting. But you are correct that
> Entourage does not sup****t the rest of the features you mention. These
> aren't dependent on MAPI, however. Exchange sup****t was implemented in
> Entourage only a short while ago (back in Entourage 10.1.6, I believe).
> Entourage 2004 has seen dramatic improvements in sup****t and features.
> If this is any indication of what's to come in Entourage 2008 I think
> we'll all be happily surprised.
>
> > Entourage 2004 does not provide full public folder or delegation
> > sup****t.
>
> > Although rules stored on Exchange Server will run, Exchange
> > Server-based rules cannot be created or changed by using Entourage.
> > To change a server-based rule from the Macintosh computer, users must
> > use Microsoft Outlook.
> >
> >
> > Entourage does not detect whether an invitation is out of date or
> > conflicts with other events.
> >
> >
> > Entourage does not sup****t invitation counterproposals in Outlook.
> >
> >
> > Entourage does not perform out-of-office responses in the same way
> > that Outlook does. To configure an out-of-office response in
> > Entourage, a user must create a rule.
>
> True. I expect many of the features we're lacking will be implemented in
> future versions. I would hope Entourage 2008 but no one knows yet.
I would hope someone at Microsoft would see the benefit to giving Mac
users
the same tools or the equivalent as Windows users. I'm sure people have
voiced disatisfaction over how these shortcomings manifest themselves in a
mixed office environment where Mac and Windows users must use the same
Exchange server, and use it to seamlessly exchange information.
>
> > Entourage 2004 has the following limitations for public folders:
> > --Only e-mail messages appear in Entourage. Other item types that
> > might be in the public folder - such as Calendar events, contacts, or
> > tasks - do not appear in Entourage.
>
> Calendar and Contact sup****t in Public Folders was introduced in a later
> update to Entourage 2004.
>
> > --To have Entourage automatically download the messages in a specific
> > public folder, a user must subscribe to that folder.
>
> You can select a folder and Entourage will begin downloading its
> contents for you to view. To cache this information (to keep it from
> downloading over and over again) you can add a folder to your Favorites.
>
> > --Public folders cannot be created, dragged, moved, renamed, or
> > deleted by using Microsoft Entourage.
>
> Public Folders are typically created by admins and not end-users.
>
> > --Downloading the public folder list from the Exchange server can be
> > very slow if there are many folders.
> > --Entourage does not save the list of public folders. The list is
> > downloaded every time the user selects the top-level public folders
> > container. To avoid downloading the folder list frequently, users can
> > subscribe to their favorite public folders in Entourage. Subscribed
> > folders in Entourage are not added to the Outlook public folders
> > Favorites list, nor are folders in the Outlook public folders
> > Favorites list added to subscribed folders in Entourage.
> > --Users cannot post directly to a public folder. To post a message,
> > the public folder must have an e-mail address, and the user must have
> > the correct access privileges. Users can also drag existing messages
> > to a public folder, depending on a user's privileges.
>
> Be sure your Exchange 2003 servers are fully patched. Entourage users
> can post to Public Folders for which they have permissions but this
> required some updates on the Exchange side.
>
> > Users cannot browse Global Address List
> > To search for an e-mail address by using the Directory Services tool
> >
> >
> > 1. On the Tools menu, click Directory Services.
> > 2. In the Server List, click the directory service you want to
> > search.
> > 3. In the Search for name box, type the name of the person whose
> > e-mail address you want to find.
> > 4. Click Find.
> > 5. In the list of search results, double-click an entry to view more
> > information.
>
> The full GAL is available (yes, you can browse it). Again this was
> introduced in one of Entourage's several updates since its release.
>
> > And a recap:
> > Differences between Entourage 2004 and Outlook for Mac
> > The following list of the notable differences between Entourage 2004
> > and Outlook will help you plan Entourage 2004 deployment and diagnose
> > Entourage issues:
> > . Entourage uses the WebDAV protocol to communicate with the Exchange
> > server and manage mail, Calendar, and contacts. Outlook uses a
> > MAPI-based architecture to communicate with the Exchange server.
> > . Entourage provides no offline access to the Global Address List.
> > Offline, recently used addresses obtained from the Global Address
> > List will appear in the most recently used list provided in the To
> > field of an Entourage message.
> > . Users cannot browse the Global Address List in Entourage (that is,
> > scroll the Global Address List from A to Z).
> > . Entourage does not sup****t multiple Calendar or Contacts folders.
> > This applies to Delegation and public folders as well as to the main
> > account.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t setting permissions.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t disabling the Entourage user interface
> > based on permissions.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t mapping from subscribed public folders
> > in Entourage to public folder favorites in Outlook.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t Outlook forms, voting buttons, RTF
> > message formatting, or receipt tracking.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t server-side rules (including
> > out-of-office messages). Entourage users connecting to an Exchange
> > 2003 server can use Outlook Web Access for out-of-office messages.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t password expiration notification or the
> > ability to change the user account password.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t quota management.
> > . Entourage does not sup****t synchronizing Tasks or Notes to Exchange
> > servers.
> >
> > *******************
> >
> > I'm hoping this time they get it right, otherwise I'd be guessing the
answer
> > is to switch to a Windows based platform, which doesn't give the Mac
> > Business Unit much of a reason to keep releasing software, right?
>
> I believe much of the information you're referencing is very outdated.
> Be sure to install Entourage and then use the Microsoft Autoupdate
> application to update to the very latest version.
>
> Please keep the following in perspective:
>
> Entourage was never envisioned to be an Exchange client. The MacBU began
> offering Exchange sup****t when they learned that the Microsoft Exchange
> Server group decided to no longer develop an Outlook client for Mac. (In
> other words, one Microsoft business unit dropped Mac Exchange sup****t
> and another stepped in to continue on with Mac Exchange sup****t using a
> resource it already had -- Entourage.)
>
> Entourage has only really had decent Exchange sup****t for one version,
> Entourage 2004, and it has seen dramatic Exchange improvements in nearly
> 6-8 updates released since its introduction. Review what the first
> version of Entourage 2004 could do compared to what it can do today. The
> MacBU has implemented what it sees as the most im****tant Exchange
> features into Entourage and will continue doing so. It can't do
> everything at once so it has to prioritize and I think it's done a
> fairly decent job at prioritization. (For example, I'd rather see some
> Public Folder sup****t, which Entourage didn't have at first, rather than
> the ability to set an oof message...)
>
> Any customer should rightly be thinking, "But it's all Microsoft!" True,
> but if you have any cor****ate experience then you'll at least have some
> understanding of the environment Entourage has had to evolve in.
True, I understand cor****ate red tape, and how certain works of labour are
not deemed profitable, but also realize that the end users (who complain
to
me) do not care or want any part of it. They just want to be able to do
the
same things that Joe Bob salesguy is doing on their Mac, or work with the
same tools as their supervisor.
>
> Let's have high hopes for Entourage 2008 and be sure to use the Send
> Feedback mechanism under any Office application's Help menu to let
> Microsoft know what's im****tant to you.
>
> bill
> --
> William M. Smith
> (Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows)
>
PS - I'm sure we all know now that with the DST changes made, this has put
another nail in the coffin of Outlook 2001
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