ZnU wrote:
> In article <8RXlh.4454$hr3.1237@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
> Lawson English <LawsonE@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> ZnU wrote:
>>> In article <pXTlh.80561$V34.76314@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>> Lawson English <LawsonE@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ZnU wrote:
>>>>> In article <pQBlh.4329$hr3.4315@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>,
>>>>> Lawson English <LawsonE@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ZnU wrote:
>>>> [...].
>>>>>>>> Eh. Even within EQ and WoW, there's a huge amount of content
>>>>>>>> that is continually being updated: the locations of all the MOBs
>>>>>>>> and players.
>>>>>>> Sure, but this stuff is comparatively tiny, compared with all the
>>>>>>> geometry and textures..
>>>>>> Sure, but its not constantly changing as is the case with 100+
>>>>>> mobile objects and/or avatars.
>>>>> It is constantly changing if you're moving around.
>>>> All the arbitrary objects are moving around constantly? The buildings
>>>> never stand still?
>>> Position data is really pretty trivial to send.
>>>
>>>>>> As the tools become cheaper and easier to use, you will see more
>>>>>> stuff made using them.
>>>>> Which might be really interesting if I'd been saying there was no
>>>>> large market for 3D animation software or computer-generated
>>>>> animation. But of course I haven't been saying that. I've been
>>>>> saying there's no large market for distributing 3D content *as* 3D
>>>>> content[1]. This has nothing to do with the market for things like,
>>>>> say, Pixar movies, which happen to be creating using 3D animation
>>>>> tools.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Except the video game market, of course.
>>>> My point is that there was no large market for distributed 3D
>>>> animation until the price of the tools came down.
>>> Uh. But there was.
>>>
>> Made by home users? I must have missed that.
>
> Sometimes made by home users. More often made by e.g. Pixar. This is how
> these things often work -- the guys with the deep pockets and the
> technical know-how pioneer things, and then everyone gets on board
later.
>
> Notably, we're not seeing the guys with the deep pockets and the
> technical know-how caring much about creating X3D content.
Where's the big bucks for such companies?
>
>>>> Right now, I can't even PLAY MPEG-4 content letalone create it,
>>>> because none of the experimental tools are available on the Mac save
>>>> as relatively complex open source distributions that I have to get
>>>> working. If the tools were widely available, and reasonably easy to
>>>> use, AND there were widely available and easy-to-use MPEG-4 players
>>>> (beyond the Extended Simple profile that QuickTime implements), you
>>>> would obviously see more MPEG-4 content. How much more, who can say?
>>>> But right now, you don't see ANY, unless you go to the trouble of
>>>> downloading GPAC or purchase some pretty darned expensive commercial
>>>> solution.
>>> We're going in circles here. As I've pointed out several times, during
>>> the time VRML and similar have been stagnating, other technologies
have
>>> got from non-existent to industry-standard. These things do actually
>>> happen. But only if there's demand.
>>>
>> 3D technology is actually changing far faster than 2D. What seemed
>> potentially useful 10 years ago has been completely superseded since
>> then. 3D tools 10 years ago were even more primitive than they are now.
Etc.
>>
>> You may be correct that there is not and will possibly never be a
demand
>> for x3d/MPEG-4 VR-streaming, but you can't base that assumption on
>> recent history. Things have changed far too much, far too fast in the
>> field. Moore's Law for CPUs works out to a doubling of speed every 18
>> months. Moore's Law for GPU's works out to a doubling of speed every 6
>> months. Video cards 10 years ago were barely beyond simple
>> frame-buffers. Video cards now are, in many ways, more powerful than
the
>> CPUs that sup****t them.
>
> The VRML use cases don't become any more compelling when you add higher
> resolution textures and more polygons, though.
>
Combined with faster streaming, I think there is a use. Afterall, would
ID have created its own graphics engine for Doom if OpenGL on high-end
video cards had been available? Likewise, when the hardware and
connections become fast enough, VR worlds based on X3D should become
useable.
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